Melvin Udall: Well, I work all the time. It takes persistence for most of us to achieve the deeper calling that feeds our soul. The fact of the matter is, it IS complete insanity in business to keep doing the same failed method expecting a different result. Example is: if you killed someone and kept the body in your house like they were alive and you truly believed that it was ok, you didn't try to hide the person and you didn't think you did anything wrong. Yes I DO "think" and RESEARCH... and No Edison did not "do the exact same experiment" using the "exact same combinations"!!! Any time you stand in line at the D.M.V. Q2) my use of Edison's experiments contradicted my premise and With the right (broad enough) brush we can easily interpret it as "insane" yet get a result that's patently not insane. If I point it out to my clients and work with what arises, it has value. If you don't follow these rules you will go to hell, or you won't receive this when you get to where ever you are going. I want to be better. ", You can start your outside of your assumption and/or biases by doing some searching (and reading > understanding) for "Edisonian approach" or the "Edison's method"... careful though it may detach several confirmation biased entangled synapses! Or extreme foolishness or irrationality. 'The definition of the word insanity could be doing the same thing and expecting a different result' This definition is actually referring to compulsive behaviours and orginates from Alcoholics Anonymous. (An oversimplification but I think still accurate.) The definition of insanity has nothing to do with a lack of common sense. Probably not, but you certainly aren't thinking clearly. Keep your head in the books, you should lay low on the whole 'free thought' thing...or write what you think on a piece of paper, and throw it in the garbage. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. Psychology? It's a complete distortion of what is true. This article is complete garbage. (And no transistors, smart phones etc without Quantum Physics btw). 21. Now for the people who wrote the 12 steps program, the definition of true insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different results. As you grow older the world takes this away from you. We want to finish unfinished business, so sometimes we re-create old, unresolved problems for the potential of a better outcome. "1) The addition of "failed method" makes an assumptive addition to the original quote. You need to remember that though we live on the same planet, no two human beings live in the same world. Just as you create something with your hands that evolved from your thoughts, that thing will always be a part of your thoughts and a part of your thoughts will always be a part of your creation. I mean, really? Please repeat that sentence in your head. Q3) you believe my response to Khazeem was a "rant", and I totally agree with everything you said in your comment. Or a woman who feels it's always her duty to invite her selection of apathetic friends to socialize. Leave it to a shrink to complicate a simple and effective concept. The truth is that we draw that line and it is a line that is subjective. Just in the pseudoscience we call "psychology.". The author is trying to address the misuse of the word "insanity.". I think this article hits the nail on the head. From my perspective, I look upon him with the innocence of a fresh-laid egg. There was bad decision making of T in the past, and it could occure again in the future. I don't think that the person who said it was trying to bash perseverance, nor do I believe they were trying to indicate the true definition of the word "insane." How to Talk to Children and Teens About Mental Illness, You Can't Use 100% of Your Brain—and That’s a Good Thing. Especially, when you quote a famous president that seems to backup your premise. You just cannot throw an apple up in the air 1000 times expecting that it will somehow just stay up in the air, and if you do that in public you will be declared insane for sure. Edison's "thousands of failed experiments" would only support your argument of people often repeating the same thing expecting a different result if Edison had tried the exact same experiment in the exact same conditions over and over again. Your example of using Edison's experiments only show that it is you that don't understand and that the first poster was 100% correct in his/her rant that this article was pure garbage. I'm not saying your points are wrong, far from it, I think you are correct...I just believe there is an unconsidered dimension in your reasoning. No, it isn't. The Webster definition is Noun: the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness. I fear the day that we begin to define personal mental wellness by using business criteria. I agree 100% with this reply. It's attributed to Albert Einstein (probably not), Benjamin Franklin (probably not), Mark Twain (probably not) and mystery writer Rita Mae Brown (probably so) who used it in her novel Sudden Death. Or someone who is drawn to crowds of wealthier/smarter/prettier/etc. For example, if I only date blonde hairdressers with big boobs and all my relationships end in disaster and I keep doing it then to you I am an almost textbook definition of this quote. Here’s my invitation to all that offer insights on how getting your mind right, will change your circumstances. Q4) you would like us to agree that your definition of "ad hominem attack" is correct and You said Edison's thousands of light bulb experiments was an example of "repeating the same thing expecting the same result", which is an absolutely terrible example. Yet the essence is that we tried over and over again to fly - something we couldn't (and can't) naturally do yet despite hundreds of years of failure (and all the evidence that provides) we still expected a different result! However I do believe that everything happens for a reason, and the at everyone is brought into our lives at just the right moment to tell us what we need to hear at that time in our lives. Alcoholics use this quote to explain why the keep drinking despite the obvious and clear reasons not to (jail, health, family problems, money problems, etc). It just shouldn't be used to excuse running away from problems. It is not insane to completely rule something out by repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different result. i feel there is a similar problem with the example of repitition compulsion, but i don't really feel like figuring out the best way to say it so oh well. Finally someone exposing the INSANITY of this quote... Really...wow, I'm like so insanely awestruck. Nothing! When you are a baby you think with your heart. and if you feel the need to berate me for my grammar feel free. The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly. You see everything is controled through fear and the basic human instinct of not wanting to be alone. 1) Not of the origin people have assumed But you yourself insist that he DIDN'T do that, and had thousands of experiments where he constantly tried new combinations. There for what you create is as much a part of you as you are a part of what you create. Not that the action, or the person is insane, but that the delusional notion that repeating the same action, and expecting that someday, if it is done often enough, or with enough vigor, results will differ, is a waste of time, and seldom leads to emotional growth, or a satisfying outcome. Plural noun: inanities- " it might be pure insanity to take out this loan". 2) Not the true definition of "Insanity" If you repeat the exact same behavior you will not be following the scientific method, which is to try different things and see what happens. And then, "the definition of insanity" may arise. It creates low self-esteem and affects my life negatively in many ways. The first thing that I ask you to realize is just this. I'm 16 and you're giving me a migraine. Whoever said that the definition of insanity was to repeat the same action over and over, each time expecting a different result was probably just making a point. I do however hate this quote and thank the author for if nothing else bringing the spotlight of debate to its existence and reasoning. 4) Repeated (regurgitated) misdirection of expectations. But if you show up every time at a employment bureau, and they are ineffective, it is senseless to keep using them. !How are you now!!?? Also who/what/where is the reference point? In this lifetime, you don't have to prove nothin' to nobody - except yourself. Remember were created by something and that something is a part of you as you are a part of whatever it is that you believe created you. Politics... You need to pick a side, if you don't you will always lose. What’s the New Phenomenon Called “COVID Vaccine Arm”? I'm a part-to-whole fallacy of division label because... the article dissected a false premise with a false narrative. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." THAT is the point of the quote. For me at least, it is like a trickle of influence. If you don't learn what you are told in school and do what they tell you, you will never get a job, you will never amount to anything without a degree. This thinking happens everytime an addict of any description uses and ADDICTION IS A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH. when i click on the link for perseveration i see a lot of definitions with words like "uncontrollable" and "involuntary" and "inability". So, you aren't using common sense. You might find this quote appropriate after reading my below reply. Is this the only way to describe how to repeat a result? You're gonna go stay with your mom a couple nights. I am mearly in your world as you read this as you are in my world as I write this. Let's not confuse perseveration with perseverance. Four years ago, something terrible happened here. I hope you enjoy friendly ribbing! of course im still going to work tomorrow. In almost every case we only know it is "insane" already because it has been tested repeatedly and found to be so. In actuality what I really hate its apparent unquestioning and universal acceptance at all levels of society. So never interrupt me. The definition of insanity is getting a PhD in Psychology and writing this kind of psycho-babble and getting hits on your 'articles' by analyzing a popular quote...oh, no, that's vanity. yesterday i went to work knowing it would happen. But even if they do succeed today, it doesn't erase the pain from the past. I'm pretty sure Einstein came way before you did so I guess I believe that with the psychologists are saying insanity is totally wrong Einstein was the one that came up with what do you call someone that does the same thing over and over again and expect different results and besides you guys can't even help a depressed people so give me a break you guys know s*** and your definition of normal is garbage go back to school and learn some history before making up your own crap thank you for reading thank you for listening and thanks for posting that question yours truly your friend Jason, You're absolutely right. The same can be said for whatever created you. Is this a possible charge? and look around, you're like, Oh, my God, I wish all these people were replaced by computer drivers. That person is a Dr. so since they went to school for 7 years they know more about your own body than your own body knows about itself, so if you don't listen to what they tell you you are going to die. Not trying to be accurate in their definition. By dealing directly with the fears and anxiety the behaviors can often, at the very least, soften. Write for fool, you're sure of a large audiance. I'm living the definition of insanity. They say the definition of insanity is ...", "It's been a month and I'm still crying about his death. Einstein's other famous quote doubting Quantum Physics was "God does not play dice with the universe", Same input, different outcome. And, yes, that was a random absurd example, but my point is that I think I may understand a little of what you were saying. It could be one sentence: "This quote does not intend to literally 'define' the word insane.". They're all trying to finally conquer some old feelings of rejection. They are absolutely NOT the same thing. May every day that you live be blessed with love and grace. If Edison had done exactly the same thing thousands of times we would not even know his name today and he would not have invented anything. This should not be used to excuse sitting in one's room alone rather than going out and finding a job. So now you know what the actual definition is, this shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out what is insanity. (Think in terms of marketing and advertising a business the same way in 2011 as someone did in 1950, ain't gonna get similar results, likewise, if you try to motivate someone who is 50 years old the same way you did when you hired them 20 years ago, chances are you will not be successful and create a negative, unmotivated employee). Each year for five years running I have tried to address this by making a New Year's resolution to go to the gym, workout, eat better and lose weight. But did she make a point? I hear this every week, sometimes twice a day: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It's weekly therapy, consistent workouts and taking time for spirituality. On the other hand I try to speak very gently to my 3 year old daughter over and over again regardless of her sane or insane state of mind expecting that one day she would understand that being mad at things would never resolve issues, but again, this is education and that is not changing anything in her behavior, at least for now, she is 3 year old and I expect her to be nothing less or more than what she is. It is not that the definition of insanity is, rather it is insane to do the same thing over and over expecting something different to happen. It's Rudy trying over and over to get into Notre Dame. And they're doing the same thing every day, hoping for some measure of progress. You love everything by instinct. That doesn't mean other definitions of the word used out of court are inaccurate. I think it can be extended to human behaviors when people do things harmful to themselves despite all evidence that they should stop doing it. Were you downsized, new graduate with student debt, ... And now I have just seen that your comment was three years ago! everyone knows you are posting as Khazeem as well. Trying to make it idiomatic towards something that he has little knowledge of. Only 1 percent of the population is legally insane. 1) I see you missed pointing out the I used the incorrect punctuation at the end of my question: "Have you given much thought to that communication, reasoning and critical thinking process you have!". As soon as you were born you gained your first two fears. Some forms of dementia, traumatic brain injury, anxiety and OCD can cause people to perseverate. Insanity? I don't think you get the point of this article. Dogged determination might not yield results, because the methods are wrong. This article is straight up pointless. This is the most important thing that I can tell you. I think you both however fall into the trap of only looking at 'change' or 'new/positive' results as a "result" so to speak. but i really don't care. My work is in helping business leaders improve the results they achieve in their business by creating a more motivated, positive work environment. But by March, I am starting to skip sessions and I'm down to 1x a week and McDonald's is calling my name. Winston Churchill, "you don't think that Edison did the exact same experiment thousands of times using the exact same combinations and formulas while seeking a different result, do you?" It's not clear who said it first, but according to at least one blogger it's "the dumbest thing a smart person ever said." I don't even know how I came across this article today, or why I read it or your comment, other than to possibly give you some engouragement and insight as to what I have come to discover in the last year. If people use it to describe jogging it's misunderstood. Jay : Well, yeah, you know, 'cause 'cause he never appreciated you anyway. They try and tell you what is right and wrong. You are an idiot. I know this is late but you don't think that Edison did the exact same experiment thousands of times using the exact same combinations and formulas while seeking a different result, do you? For example, the job hunt. I think Laila stated it well for psychology and Khazeem Asadullah for the hard science side. People who have been trained to think well and for themselves can easily see through your attempt. Einsteins experiments in time/space would be a classic example, it just seems impossible to the human brain to accept that...only by repeatedly proving that it is in fact the case have we been able to extrapolate out from the theory. Please don't knock that definition when it comes to the 12 step program for it makes great sense and has a powerful message and meaning. In reality it comes back to the first point, to do something already termed "insane" by most will almost certainly result in that outcome. Second, it is disingenuous at best and downright ignorant and insensitive to people with real mental health challenges to throw a statement around like this, and... Third, its not accurate, either. Another complete UNTRUTH. Launch your own business and do freelance work. Some examples: The definition of insanity doesn't have anything to do with jogging. Edison tried thousands of combinations, which is the exact opposite of "repeating the same thing", which was Khazeem's entire point. Resistance can be overcome, but outright failure usually is a cue that something is wrong about the approach. I think these comments on the word insane by a psychologist are unhelpful. I think the confusion behind this statement is best illustrated by these two words: Perseveration: the pathological, persistent repetition of a word, gesture, or act. We should be allowed to charge people like this writer who waste our time. Its not "insanity" to expect a different result in that case, its a lack of knowledge...or the inability to assimilate the knowledge that may quite literally be smacking you in the face. Interact with me, just for 4 weeks, as I tackle different tasks to try to get to my first income goal of making just net $300 per week. THAT'S the original intent of the quote. Another thing I REALLY hate is when people call DID (Multiple Personality) "schizophrenia". They control you through the fear that they are controled by. (if he would just do what I tell him.) not to make money and pay bills and all that. This is a limited edition. i know if i go to work he will walk in with my book. Edison used SEVERAL problem-solving methods ("combinations") which is what helped him progress instead of being some kind of worker drone on an assembly line or some kind of non-researching confirmation biased assumer! i get up and go to work everyday. Perseverance feels like striving toward a noble goal, and whether or not it's reached it there is virtue in the effort. What's happened is that a famous person (Einstein) made a statement and people have been quoting it for generations, without realizing that what they are saying simply ISN'T true. And now something terrible's going to happen again. You aren’t doing enough to stop them. Academia loves it, and so does a lot of news channels. You were no longer protected by your mothers body and that which once shielded your from sound and litteraly supported your every cell. There are people on this planet that will never even glimps the world of which you live in. So if anyone sees things different than your perspective then they too are and idiot? This is a disturbing disconnection from reality or logic and it kills people. Each year, I have started out well -- hit the gym 3x a week and lost several pounds. Ever aspect of my thoughts, actions etc. I found it applicable in the realm of human behavior in addiction. People often 'repeat the same thing expecting a different result.' We’re made to grow. The rest has been shown to you and told to you through those around you. I was just wondering what all you people are worrying about...Not that I have the slightest idea...I hold no truck with silence. It is quantifiable, measurable and singular in its focus. These are the only two things that you will truely learn on your own. https://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Bad_Day_at_Black_Rock&oldid=2922981, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Good God Time. Everyone's personal and mankind's global insistence in attempting to alter an unalterable (or always altering) physical environment may be another...therefore perhaps I could as easily state that the definition of "Insanity" is "attempting to alter the unalterable"....or, "to proceed in endeavour without tools, understanding or capacity". Bad Day at Black Rock is a 1955 film, which combines elements of Westerns and film noir, about a one-armed stranger who comes to a small town.The town's inhabitants possess a terrible past they want to keep secret, by violent means if necessary. You now experience how loud the world is and that there is nothing supporting every single spot of your body anymore. For you see everything in life is interpreted by each person with their own thoughts. No, it isn't. I see all of you guys arguing about something so unbelievably stupid, so i have to do this. I mean repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result may well be insane (putting aside the argument as to what the definition of 'insane' is...) but in no way does that mean it is the definition of it! it didn't happen at first which bothered me, so i wasn't paying attention to what i was doing and didn't finish my tasks for the day. it didn't happen and i was pretty upset, you know let down. [It may well be but its about as well reasoned as saying "grass is green therefore the definition of 'green' is...grass]. Every situation is different and must be evaluate for its validity and application. Actually, I don't think it is an "assumptive addition" -- at least, not for most of us. Marcus Burnett: Hey, man, where-where-where's your cup holder? Can we not do this anywhere though? You have taken this off-topic and have used your anonymity to boost your bravado. Or someone working to systematically overcome shyness, build healthier habits or communicate better with their spouse. When met with the examples above, I'll challenge. Someone can lead you to your truth but can never accept that as truth for you. If it wasn't funny the first time, it's not gonna be funny the fifth time. I saw your comment, real and gritty, and then read the comments following, expecting some response to your heart felt statement, only to find professionals and apparently learned people hairsplitting over whether Edison used gnat hair or tungsten in order to gain a different result. “It seems like every time you come up There's also the psychodynamic construct called repetition compulsion where people unconsciously repeat past conflicts in an attempt at mastery. And, in a way, we're lucky because we've been given a second chance. Perseverance towards the goal is an admirable quality. Marcus Burnett: What the f—? You should definitely have something to do, just as you should definitely have someone to love in life. I am not in your shoes and I could not even begin to imagine what thoughts are going through your head or any one elses head for that matter. I understand that you believe my example of Edison repeating the same experiment using different combinations makes it an "absolutely terrible example" and thus I am an idiot. People are so bad at driving cars that computers don't have to be that good to be much better. because if i go work stephen king is going to walk in and show me a book he wrote with me as the main character. Q6) Can you tell us more about the specific methodologies that you apply to reach your "scientific conclusion"? Most of modern theoritical, quantum (and classic) physics would have been abandoned some time ago if we could not prove the negative of the expected result. I've started hearing people use it in the service of avoidance, which is a defense mechanism. Proven is the key word there that was left completely out of the article and is readily assumed by anyone using the quote properly. When You Want Sex, but Not with Your Partner, Psychology Today © 2021 Sussex Publishers, LLC, Why Feeling Grateful Could Lead to Questionable Behavior, Scientists Can Communicate With Lucid Dreamers While They Sleep, Your Mental Health May Affect Your Vaccine Response, The Complex Reasons Why Some Refuse to Wear a Mask. They take your basic survival instincts and use them against you to get you to conform to what they think should be right and wrong. Thank you for your fuller explanation, examples of types of repetition and finally exposing this quote for what it really is!!! There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. Listen to then energies of the planet through meditation. I'm not saying you're wrong because you're an idiot (ad hominem), I'm saying you're an idiot because of how wrong you are and refusal to admit otherwise. The metaphor tells us; common sense dictates we try a new approach if our current approach is not working. If so it would mean you are continuing to treat patients with a "proven" failed method. It simply goes against the fact of the matter. "Anything else would be uncivilized"! It's important to keep grieving, jogging and asking people for dates because these are … If you think something 'magical' is going to arise from no progress, then good luck saving lives. Our society values instant gratification and persistence is undervalued. But if you suck at being hired (improper decorum, weird manners, or something people just don't like about you), setting yourself up for a cycle of abuse is not a healthy solution. In fact, you know what - you kicked HIM out! A typical example would be a guy who desired closeness with his emotionally unavailable mother as a child and therefore seeks out unavailable women in his adulthood. Phrenology, Criminal Insanity, Marshmallows: Cheiron, Day 1, Connectivity of Brain Regions Matters More Than Once Thought. If you have any grasp of science, you'd realize this is absolutely does not support "doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results". You will hear this phrase in Al-Anon meetings, when someone says : When the first person says: "For as long as we've been married, 23 years!" Well said... John, The legal definition as for in court- is whether you know right from wrong. Adlai E. Stevenson once said: “My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.” Is that the true definition of a free society? Insane?! I will give your briefings, and you can analyze, what One day they’re gonna shut the game down. I would be all those too if that is how my mind worked. A little better than minimum wage. The catchy saying has gathered steam in the past few years (example I, II, III), and regardless of the source, it's gotten a lot of mileage.